Leaning on the bit - any advice?

[gillybou]

Hello everyone

My Normandy cob, Coco, has developed a leaning on the bit habit. She didn't come with it 9 months ago but now she leans. I am having lessons but I cannot get to the bottom of what I should be doing to help her stay in self carriage. Advice so far is more leg and simply not to let her do it which is easier said than done. I am doing lots of transitions at the moment too. As I seem to have caused the problem, clearly I am at risk of making it worse.

I have noticed it is worse when she is very relaxed and when she is tired. Any advice would be welcome. She is currently ridden in a double jointed loose ring snaffle with a lozenge - a bit like a French link but not flat.

I know many if you out there have large heavy friends to work with and maybe you have had this issue too.

Gilly

[anakin14]

Hi Gilly

My top advice for this sort of problem is knowing when to give your reins! When you are working an inexperienced horse you need to teach them how to carry themself (this is a lot easier said than done, i know).

I would suggest maybe trying some smallish circles, perhaps 10m, in walk. Try raising your inside hand slightly (but don’t let her fall out!) as this helps the horse to become rounded. Keep your contact, but as soon as you feel her start to take hold and lean, push from behind and insist on more impulsion and bounce. Likewise, when you feel her poll rise and she begins to carry herself, be quick to give the reins, even if it is only for a second or two before it all falls apart again!

A horse’s head is a little like their 5th leg, and a young or unbalanced horse will often try to use this (much like a toddler crawling!). They need to learn to take the weight in their hocks and this isn’t something that comes with ease to a lot of horses! Make sure you have enough impulsion by asking for more from behind but being sure not to let her run away with you! I guess this is why it is a little easier to start this on a circle.

When in trot, on young horses I often find it beneficial to take a slightly forward seat as it seems to help them find a better shape but I think this is probably personal preference!

Good luck, I know how you feel, I used to school a hackney cross and he was awful for leaning, he was only 14hh but felt like I was holding a bowling ball!!!

Briony

[em]

Hi Gilly

Briony is spot on that one of the keys to this is to be quick to release the pressure on the rein as soon as you feel the horse carry itself..thus you are rewarding the carying behaviour

There is a great piece on this in the Diary of an Older Horse and Avril explains exactly about leaning and how to teach the horse to carry itself... Personally i would get out of the school and get on the road to do this because Coco will naturally have more energy to work with because they all love being out hacking

I wouldnt worry unduly as Coco has been trained to carry herself so it is all in there you just need to find the technique she understands so the Diary would be a good place to start

I love it when instructors say "well just dont let them do it" you will usually find if you press them they dont really know what to advise!! ;D

You could always ring Avril I am sure she wouldnt mind

Good luck x x x

[ange]

Hi Gilly,

I'm guessing that you have done all of the usual checks (teeth, saddle, back, etc) to rule out her leaning to avoid discomfort?

As is said above, Avril has covered this, but if you also want to read more on it you might be interested in reading Heather Moffett's Enlightened Equitation, which has just been re-released.

Heather is quite outspoken and has a slightly different approach to many instructors, and it makes interesting reading (many of the photos in the new book were taken at the retirement livery yard where I now keep Penny, so the book has some personal interest to me, as well as being a very interesting read). I also think that Amazon have just dropped the price below the RRP, although they will only have a few books in stock at this price.

Another approach that I've been told of (not from Heather, and I can't remember exactly what Avril advises without re-reading) is that if your horse leans, be really quick to totally drop the rein, i.e. don't give them anything to lean on, and instead put your leg on to send them forwards, so they don't get the support that they are after.

Cheers, Ange.

[liz]

I endorse Ange's recommendation of Heather's book. I know her and have visited her yard in South Devon to see her working her gorgeous Iberian horses and to natter and have a coffee. She is a classical rider who was taught by the best classical masters and is wonderful to watch. She teaches worldwide and is a genuinely nice lady.

My old palomino anglo arab used to lean/get behind the bit when excited and that's what I used to do, Ange. Drop the contact and push on!

[gillybou]

Thanks do much for all your help - everyone knows so much. To be honest, I was beginning to panic. I have started working through the suggestions which are not dissimilar to what I have been told by my instructor but a little more detailed as, I am sure you are all right, the timing of the release is the key. I have a heather Moffatt Seatbone saver (wonderful!) and the book sounds a great addition to my horsey library. Avril told me they people can ruin a horse in a week. I really don't want to be that person. I think it would be great to send Avril's horses back to her every now and then for a bit of retraining and to iron out all those little issue that have crept in. I'm on the foundation course on 21st April to see if I can improve our relationship generally as I don't yet feel I have her total trust as I am sure that will help with girthing issues that she has. I can see from marks on her back that she has once worn an ill fitting saddle too and she clearly doesn't like me saddling her. Does anyone know if it is bad to let a horse eat its hay during saddling. It does make the process a much calmer one for us.

On a positive note (I don't mean to sound as though everything else is negative because it isn't), she was a star on the mock hunt on Sunday, showing her best galloping, and we lasted the whole session including the water jump (although we took the slope out not the jump). It was a bit of blind faith on my part as I had no idea how she would react! I simply trusted in her training as it has never let me down yet! I only hope that her legs don't ache as much as mine today!

Thanks again

Gilly

[ange]

Hi Gilly,

well done for doing the mock hunt - it's so nice when you have a horse that you can trust!

Don't worry yourself too much about not getting things right - we all have to learn and sadly we may never develop the level of 'feel' that Avril (and Heather) have, but we can at least aspire to be as good as we can be! If you and Coco are both having fun then you must be on the right track!!

Cheers, Ange.

[angelac]

Hi Gilly
I was just thinking how good it would be if you could take Co Co with you onto one of the foundation courses and then read on to see that this is what you are going to do.
What a fantastic opportunity !! Wishing you all the best with this.
As em stated you know that Co Co will have had the right training so its a matter of re tapping into it.
Good for you ;D
Angela

[gillybou]

Hi Angela
Sadly, I'm not actually taking Coco with me on the course - I'm hoping to bring back enough pearls of wisdom to move us on a bit when I get home!! I don't have any transport and I was only half joking when I told Avril that I fear Coco may refuse to leave if I take her back down to MSC!! I've got a while until the course - I may yet change my hind and hire a box - you're right - it really would be fantastic.
Hope everyone is surviving this cold spell - glad I bought that new thicker rug last week.
Gilly

[angelac]

I'm sure it will be a fabulous opportunity even if you cannot take Co Co.
I have good prospects for attending another course this year, though sadly live too far to take one of my two horses.
I would so love to if it were feasible.
I can't wait to book but am just needing to identify my best opportunity. ( at least I'v raised the subject at home now )

Miracle weather up here at the mo. Cold but bright and sunny.
The brisk wind has started to dry up our copious mud. I know it won't last, but am enjoying it big time whilst it lasts ;D

Best wishes
Angela

[liz]

Could it coincide with BBQ, again, Angela x

[angelac]

You could be blessed with pyschic powers there Liz
Thats kind of what I'm hoping.
Are you intending to attend the BBQ yourself ?
Take care
Angela x

[liz]

Well, I hope so, Angela! x

[erika George]

The only real time that George has leant on his reins was due to his saddle pinching. It wasn't really leaning, more stealing the reins so that he could stretch out as much as possible. I must admit that I ride on such a loose contact that there isn't anything to lean on I do sometimes take up the contact but most of the time it isn't necessary.

Erika & George

[Erika George]

Going back to your problem with girthing issues, are you sure that the saddle/girth is not pinching Coco? I know that it can be really difficult to get a saddle to fit comfortably for these big horses. It was about 6 months before we found a saddle that was comfortable for George and that didn't slip. At one stage George was putting in a small buck going into canter and this was totally saddle related.
My friend's horse is a bit of a devil to saddle and will try and bite when you saddle up. To get around this problem I saddle up gradually. I will put the numnah on and then go and fetch the saddle. I will then brush out his mane and then return to put the saddle on and very loosely do up the girth before moving onto the next job. This drops his tension levels and he relaxes enough for me to do his girth without him reacting too much. I also talk the whole time to keep my own energy/breathing levels down. Or maybe I am just boring him into submission!

Trust will come, it is still early days.

erika & George